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Talk:Co-op
Needed? Couldn't this info just be added as notes to the Henchman page rather then having a full page? This seems awfully similar to those guides on playing specific styles, which were better as a forum or blog posting rather then a full article.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 06:26, June 11, 2013 (UTC) I didn't know anything about a henchman page however, that would merely cover what they can and can't do, this tells us the effect to the host, his or her world and miscellanious stuff like camera and it is more likely someone would look for Co-op than henchman anyways. There is still a lot we don't know about co-op and I wish to discover as much about it as possible to put on the Co-op page but that doesn't mean the henchman page is obselete. Boredfan1 (talk) 19:56, June 11, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 19:56, June 11, 2013 (UTC) :Honestly this page could be done under the Henchman page, what is allowed for the host isn't allowed for the Henchman and vice versa allowing any notes added to the Henchman page to cover it all. And for Fable III its basically saying "Well in this game both players can do anything" which covers all the spacing for the section of Fable III on the co-op page. As you said, you wish to discover as much as possible, hence my suggestion of a forum thread or blog post rather then an entire article. To this effect we may as well have a page for the pause menu, all the stuff allowed for it and such if you see what I'm meaning? Its one of those game mechanics that either works best as notes on an article or as a forum thread for anyone to add info and their own personal experiences.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 03:05, June 12, 2013 (UTC) :Like I said though, there is more to co-op than just what each player can do and the Henchman page won't really be allowed to cover anything that doesn't have to do with what he can or can't do. :Also, you can't do everything in Fable 3, a good example is that the henchman can't hold the hand of anyone in their host's world. :If anything, the Co-op and Henchman articles need to be merged as they both really cover the same thing but in different degrees otherwise, both need to be deleted and a thread be made. :Should it get merged, Co-op would likely be the name kept anyways as henchmen appear in a type of gameplay called Co-op and would be more likely to be searched for. :I respect wher you are coming from and I hope you respect where I am coming from. :Boredfan1 (talk) 07:16, June 12, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 07:16, June 12, 2013 (UTC) ::At the moment, this reads more like a blog than an article, but I agree that there is not enough information on Co-op currently covered by the Henchman article. Noticeable things that you have covered which aren't there include: movement and camera restrictions, use of abilities, henchman wages (that's why you get 1/2/5 etc gold every five minutes), and limited interaction. What I would suggest, given this page's current blog-style presentation, is that we move it to User blog:Boredfan1/Co-op until you have completed it, and then we can pull the information out to update the article on co-op gameplay afterwards. Whether we decide to call that article Henchman or Co-op, we can decide later. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 13:34, June 12, 2013 (UTC) ::That sounds like a good idea but, the only problem is that I am still notable new with Wikia and thus haven't got the hang of everything, least of all the blog so I'll have to experiment with it for a bit before doing it however, I'll probably post back here soon with my progress. ::Any advice you can give me will definitely help me speed up the process. ::Boredfan1 (talk) 20:19, June 12, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 20:19, June 12, 2013 (UTC) :::The blogs work in exactly the same way as a normal page; start them off, then edit them with the edit button at the top. The only difference is that they have an optional comments section at the bottom, which can be turned off if you don't want comments. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 01:20, June 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::I'll have to ask Enodoc, or one of the other users, to move the article to the blog section for you Boredfan. As that is the current way things are going, like Enodoc suggested above, a renaming/moving of this article will work good. And with that, other users can post comments to assist your gathering of such info. I'd move it for you, but I'm not good with the moving side of things outside of going to forum.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 01:37, June 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::What is sounds like is that you guys think it should be moved to the blog section which would nerf it as a article where it would be most useful for anyone just passing through the site looking for certain information as I have done many times. ::::If that is what your talking about, I don't agree with it, I can gather most of the information myself and what I can't from a blog then post it on the article for a more convienient find for the public. ::::Also, I am considering created a new article called Co-op/Henchman to maximize being found and putting the information from both articles on it then rquesting for the Co-op article to be deleted and see about getting the Henchman article deleted as well since they will become obselete. ::::That is the most effecient way I can think of how to do this. ::::Boredfan1 (talk) 03:15, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Borefan1Boredfan1 (talk) 03:15, June 13, 2013 (UTC) Why not compromise and move it to the talk page of Henchman, where it can be "Under Construction" until it can be moved or merged into the main article. I myself have logged many hours in both online and local co-op in Fable II and III and I agree that there is a lot of information that can be covered. Alpha, you play "couch co-op" a lot, you could help make this very helpful to the many people who still play F2 and F3. Co-op mode is very different in these two games and we all need to combine our knowledge. Personally I think having a page for Fable II co-op and another for Fable III co-op would be a good idea. The henchman page would remain as dealing with the specifics of being the 'Guest' rather than the 'Host'.Garry Damrau(talk) 05:09, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :I do play "Couch Co-op" a fair amount, but honestly the only things that would really be listed here that can't be added as info for the Henchman page would be the mechanics of the actual Co-op system, like going into full detail about the pause menu for all the games. A lot of the mechanics of this stuff could be inserted on the actual Fable III page under a section "Co-Op mechanics" and listing it. This is how I am viewing this article as, without the mechanics about how the co-op system works for the Host player, it'd just be adding things better suited on other articles. Although I do think the Henchman article should have a way of being viewed via a co-op search. My view point for this is that its either good for a forum thread, blog or split between the two pages I mentioned just before, hence why I came to the talk page to get the consensus opinions about it.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 05:25, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :Yes, you are right. I probably play co-op so much that the mechanics become second nature. Let me then suggest that E move this to a forum and redirect this page to Henchman. Garry Damrau(talk) 05:55, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :What do you mean "until it can be merged into the main article"? :Honestly, one article and only one article should have the information as it is annoying to go between two articles when one can easily cover it. :The point of the Co-op article was to list ALL information about co-op from the actually mechanics to what the host and henchman can do to achievements and more so that players don't have to go hunting for it. :Not many people even know what forums are or how to find them so by moving it there, we make this information unavailable to a lot of people, defeating the entire point of an article. :Blogs, like forums are not really all that common on normal sites and anyone not registered, formally registered or otherwise knows about registered user interfaces like blogs wouldn't know it exists or how to find it, again making it less convienient. :Some people may search Henchmen befor co-op and while it is mentioned here, that is no guarantee that they would visit this so, one page if not both should be deleted and be replaced with a name that maximizes all possible searches for this information. :Boredfan1 (talk) 06:42, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 06:42, June 13, 2013 (UTC) ::But the mechanics are what the host can do, the mechanics of Co-op cover anything that gets controlled by any player during the time played. Things such as the camera, is the mechanics and is relate able to that of a pause menu getting described in full. It'd be like having the Sanctuary page, but linking off to another page just to describe some part of it. A good idea would be to make a little list, enough for a section on each of the main game pages, such as fable II describing the mechanics for the host, and putting all the henchman related info on the henchman page. From all I have seen, there isn't really enough to sustain this page once the henchman info is removed and put on its appropriate article page. And as GD suggested, put in a redirect. That would mean if anyone searched the term Co-op they'd get taken to the Henchman page, at the bottom of which could have a link saying "For info about what the host can do see..." and linking the sections for each part. ::You say you want to list all the info about Co-op, yet half of it is covered on the henchman page, another quarterish is covered under the achievement pages for each game, and the last could be simply added as a section to the game pages. It'd save having the info about what a henchman can do, and the achievements, listed twice if not more. That is all I'm getting at with my opinion, but as I said I came here for the opinions of others to see what will happen.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 11:26, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :::The reason that I suggested moving it to a blog is that it currently reads more like a blog than an article (based on the style guidelines of an article), and is being worked on solely by one person, not because the information is unnecessary. When it's finished, we would then turn it into an article. Alternatively, we can restyle it as a collaborative article now in preparation for the next round of information that you add. As I said before, we can decide what to call that article later, but Co-op probably makes the most sense. Then we can cover both Host and Henchman info in one place, which would be the most beneficial I think. We can move the content of Henchman to it and then redirect that page there as well. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 12:49, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :::Endoc, remember that it is still not even half finished, I am more concerned about actually getting infomation about it up as best and fast as possible until most, if not all information is present then make it coincide with the guidelines. :::What I don't understand is why all of you are here to discuss this because you obviously care to at least a small degree yet, I'm the only one working on the information. :::I do plan to put something for this up on my blog so that players can come contribute their input on it and help me sort it out and when it's sorted, anyone who gets to it first can add the information to the article. :::Lycos, the Co-op article is to put all the information relating to it not just for Fable 2 but Fable 3 and future games as well all in one spot and being linked there from the various game articles Co-op is not like a priority thing for the game's main article to cover plus, if they play other Fable games, they would be able to learn about how it works for them at the same time. :::I read over the Henchman page, it didn;t have half of what I know Henhmen can and can't do in both Fable games or talked about achievements which it should so even without the henchmen information, it would still have tons of information. :::Like I said though, besides what the host and henchmen can do, achievements as well as camera, there is still plenty to write about as I doubt many took the time to find everything and I have been playing the game for years but keep getting surprised. :::Boredfan1 (talk) 20:27, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 20:27, June 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::That's cool, now I know your train of thought and I can see the angle you are coming at this from. There are some bits that I have seen on there which I will have a poke at, and as we go along we can tweak it for style. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 21:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::Cool, I look forward to seeing your input and learning from it. :p ::::Boredfan1 (talk) 22:37, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 22:37, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :::: Information I'll start this off by saying that this section is for posting the information you have on the game's co-op feature so that before it goes up officially, we can sort out the information and make sure it goes up as clear and well written as possible. This section is of course temporary, being replaced later on by either a blog or a thread but until then, start posting and do your best! Boredfan1 (talk) 03:54, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 03:54, June 13, 2013 (UTC) Endoc, we shouldn't include Fable anniversary since we really don't know what they are going to do with it as there is a chance, even if it is small that it might have that capibility however, in the notes we can say it's assumed that it won't have the capability. Boredfan1 (talk) 22:38, June 13, 2013 (UTC)Boredfan1Boredfan1 (talk) 22:38, June 13, 2013 (UTC) :Oops, I meant to add the reference for that. (Every pre-launch piece of info should have a reference.) I'll do that now. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 23:46, June 13, 2013 (UTC) Two cents more I do really hate to complicate the subject further but we forgot to include Fable Heroes which has a 2-4 player co-op capability. OK now I will shut up.Garry Damrau(talk) 07:35, June 14, 2013 (UTC) No problem dude, I forgot about the game to be honest otherwise it would be on the article since it is technically a Fable game though not a normal one. Anyways, if you get to it before me, you or anyone else is welcom to add it as I'm going to try to focus on my fanfiction which has been severly neglected but I'll check in several times of day to see how things are. Boredfan1 (talk) 21:24, June 14, 2013 (UTC)